Should Texas Secede From The Union?

[Brad Kenney]

Republican Texas Governor Rick Perry is invoking the threat of Texas secession over the stimulus bill. (Not to be outdone, former Republican House Majority Leader Tom Delay has joined in, albeit in his typical, factually-challenged manner.)

Nate Silver at the political statistics megasite FiveThirtyEight.com breaks down the ramifications for the right wing. Not surprisingly, and whatever you might think of this talk in terms of being self-serving and unpatriotic, even in the strictest of political terms, this is a remarkably stupid idea.

-- If Texas were not in the Union, the Democrats would currently have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. . . in a 98-seat Senate, only 59 votes would be required to break a filibuster.
-- If Texas were not in the Union, the Republicans would operate from a significantly weakened position in the House. . .
-- If Texas were not in the Union, George W. Bush would never have become President in 2000 -- not because he'd be constitutionally ineligible (Bush, despite his Texas twang, was born in posh New Haven, Connecticut). Rather, he wouldn't have had enough Electoral Votes to defeat Al Gore.
-- If Texas were not in the Union, Barack Obama would have won the Electoral College 389-147 instead of 365-173 (note that there are two fewer votes total, because there would be two fewer Senators). The vast majority of Texas' electoral votes would be redistributed to states like California (which would go from having 55 electoral votes to 59) and New York (34 rather than 31)

Someone should remind these geniuses that secession didn't work out too well last time, and just because the gasbags in the media keep comparing Obama to Lincoln doesn't mean they have to start another Civil War.

[Be Ware]

Two things:

1. Why do all the reasons you and the article's original author list against secession deal with political power ramifications (Republicans vs. Democrats)?

2. Why is this such a big deal, when Mr. Cole on Balloon Juice even admits a democrat has done the same thing (Gray Davis,2003)? I don't remember such coverage, venom (using "jacka$$, a$$hat" really?), or hub-bub when that occurred.

Take it for what it is, just another politician pandering. It's what they do. Plus it's Texas which increases the bravado factor by at least two.

Why everyone is so fixated on it tells me dems are trying to spin this (or are really scared they've alarmed the public so much it might happen, which we all know chances of which are slim to none).

[Abogle]

I say we just give them back to Mexico

I remember a line from the movie "Full Metal Jacket" - only two things come from Texas ..................

[Abogle]

Why everyone is so fixated on it tells me dems are trying to spin this (or are really scared they've alarmed the public so much it might happen, which we all know chances of which are slim to none).

the dems have horribly mis-underestimated the populist wave rushing thru the US right now

much of their goodwill going in is quickly turning into backlash

or "Hopelash" as i recently heard it called

[railguy]

Originally Posted by Abogle

I say we just give them back to Mexico

I remember a line from the movie "Full Metal Jacket" - only two things come from Texas ..................

It would be a little hard to give Texas "back" to Mexico as Texas fought and won independance on its own from Mexico and was a Republic before it was a State. If you knew anything about history you would know that the Republic of Texas was the only country, or republic ever taken in as a State.

The battle at the ALAMO was for something. Go read what Sam Houston was able to do after the battle at the ALAMO was lost.

railguy

[Abogle]

lighten up, man

it was a JOKE son (hence the little smiley faces)

however giving Texas back to Mexico is no more riduculous than all this unpatriotic secessionist talk.

pretty presumptuous of you to suggest what I do or don't know about history - sounds like maybe you ought to do a little brushing up yourself

[railguy]

Originally Posted by Abogle

lighten up, man

it was a JOKE son (hence the little smiley faces)

however giving Texas back to Mexico is no more riduculous than all this unpatriotic secessionist talk.

pretty presumptuous of you to suggest what I do or don't know about history - sounds like maybe you ought to do a little brushing up yourself

If you saw what Gov. Perry said, when he said it, then you would realize he did not say we should, or even could, secede.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said:

"We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to
dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose
at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that."

+++++++++++++++++++++

Well, now really. . .just what is the problem? No person,
no thing, no country, is ever promised tomorrow. Perry is
stating a very simple fact, "who knows what may come of
that". Name me a country, or government, that has been
around since the beginning of time. These people that are
getting bent out of shape because Perry believes that this
Union can change if the government continues to not to
listen to the people of the country are ignorant of the
facts. The facts are, time marches on and everything
changes in time.

Perry is right. Who knows what will happen, and weirder
things have happened in history than if Texas was to ever
secede in the future.

Sorry I could not see your humor. Was Kenney trying to be funny to cause I was really wondering about how he was getting where he was trying to go.

railguy

[polmod]

Brief summary of Texas history from an outsider perspective:
Group of Americans decide they are unhappy living in the United States so they decide to move to Mexico.
They decide they don't like living in Mexico so they decide to revolt.
Part of them get their ass kicked at the Alamo.
Part of them get lucky at San Jacinto and capture Santa Anna, gaining their independence.
Group decides they don't like being an independent country and ask to become part of the US again.
Texas decides, again, they don't like living in the US and cecede.
Confederacy gets its ass kicked; Texas becomes part of the US again.
US invests billions in Texas in military bases and other government installations.
US money and oil and gas are the basis for the Texas economy
Summary: Texans can't decide what's best for them, get lucky time after time, and think they're better than everyone else because of it, forgetting that they regularly get their ass kicked when they aren't getting lucky.
Now, should Texas cecede? They would be bankrupt in no time when the US pulled out of all of the military bases and other government installations, leaving Texas to survive on oil and gas money, which is drying up as we speak. So, based on history, that's probably what they will do and, when they find out they've gotten their ass kicked (again), this time financially, they'll ask to come back to the US.

[rbrooku]

Doesn't matter who advocates it, it is a position of treason. Half a million lives were lost in establishing this fact.

[ARS]

Originally Posted by railguy

If you saw what Gov. Perry said, when he said it, then you would realize he did not say we should, or even could, secede.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said:

"We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to
dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose
at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that."

It's an unstated threat. It's like blackmail. He's saying, "THat's a great Union you've got there -- be a damn shame if anything should...happen to it."

Hey Governor Perry -- that's a great smile you've got. There's absolutely no reason to clock you in the face, but my fist might just be heading that way. Who knows what might happen?